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Post by asdettin on Jul 23, 2004 15:59:47 GMT
can someone explain to me how the 2nd best player on grass courts has a below average volley and an average return of serve? ( i am talking about andy roddick ).
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Post by Laury on Jul 23, 2004 17:45:32 GMT
Why do you say he is the second player on grass? If you say so because he´s runner up in Wimbledon 2004, you should say Gaudio is the best player on clay. To be finalist in a GS they have to play well but also have some luck, confidence and so. I think Roddick is better playing on hardcourts than playing on grass. And also that there are better players on grass than him.
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Post by asdettin on Jul 26, 2004 21:35:13 GMT
To answer your question i think he is the 2nd best player on grass because he has one back-to-back queens titles, semi at wimbledon, and finals at wimbledon. self explanatory i think.
who would be the better players on grass???
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Post by tall_one on Jul 26, 2004 21:47:26 GMT
Better on grass, well he only one you can say for certian is Federer, but anyway to answer the orginal question, it is because no one learns to to serve and volley in the US anymore.
S & V works best on grass and there aren't hardly any grass courts on the US, nor many grass court tourneys so people don't learn to do it, unless you are like Tayor Dent who has parents who played tennis. S & V just isn't taught much so of course Andy isn't very good at it yet.
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Post by asdettin on Jul 27, 2004 23:00:07 GMT
"And also that there are better players on grass than him." - laury
so why won't you share who the better players are then? come on, you made a statement, now back it up.
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Post by RainerShuttle on Jul 28, 2004 11:15:58 GMT
Tim Henman is a better grass court player Sure he hasnt't made the Wimbledon finals but that isn't due to a lack of ability, its mainly the pressure. If Roddick and Henman met on grass, I'd favour Henman due to his excellent head-to-head record and the fact that Roddick doesn't like playing people that come to the net. Also on grass I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see players such as Nalbandian, Hewitt, Agassi, Schuettler or other good base-liners getting some joy against Roddick - to be honest Roddick's run through to the finals of Wimbledon this year wasn't exactly littered with big scalps, compared to Federer he had an easy run through.
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Post by Lisa on Jul 28, 2004 14:40:59 GMT
Good points. Tim v Andy - I would certainly chose Tim. I would say Tim is very close to being the best grass player. I don't think grass is just about S&V anymore: there are 2 different styles of game } the power game and the "intelligent" game consisting of flair, ability etc. Tim has always been a more constructive player, his is not about power (although he does have one heck of a serve at times!)
Tim is the best player in the world NOT to have won a GS. And yes, as far as Wimbledon goes, unfortunately he has a mountain of pressure on him. I'm not trying to make excuses for him not winning, but I think anyone who knows how the British press (and the general way of British thinking) are, will understand the pressure.
I do believe Andy will become a top Grass player in the next year or so, but at the moment, a few other players are a little better than him... Federer, Nalbandian, Hewitt (altho it hurts me to say his name!) Grosjean.
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Post by RainerShuttle on Jul 28, 2004 17:53:22 GMT
I also think a fully fit Rusedski, Philippoussis and Ivanisevic could beat Roddick on grass due to their better all-round grass court game. They have better approach shots and volleys and are just more comfoetable at the net. Roddick's a good grass court player but I wouldn't label him as being the second best in the world - you have to view a player over a number of years before judging their ability, not just the past two years.
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Post by asdettin on Jul 28, 2004 18:03:10 GMT
shuttle,
please tell me you are joking!
"Roddick's a good grass court player but I wouldn't label him as being the second best in the world - you have to view a player over a number of years before judging their ability, not just the past two years."
so by that rationale one could not say federer is the best grass court player? please.
dudes, roddicks results on grass speak for themselves PERIOD. back-to-back queens titles and a final and semi at wimbledon. you can speak in ifs and buts all night.
"I would say Tim is very close to being the best grass player." ughhh
"I do believe Andy will become a top Grass player in the next year or so, but at the moment, a few other players are a little better than him... Federer, Nalbandian, Hewitt (altho it hurts me to say his name!) Grosjean. " really that must be why both hewitt and grosjean got their asses kicked at queens by roddick.
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Post by RainerShuttle on Jul 28, 2004 18:10:26 GMT
You must be American That's the only explanation for the blatant sucking up to Roddick and reluctance to accept another's opinion. Henman has been reaching the latter stages of grass court tournaments far longer than Roddick. Sure Roddick has had a very productive and impressive two years on grass but compare his draws at this year's Wimbledon and last year's. Who did he beat? Clay courters and qualifiers. Well done Mr Bigshot. Don;t get me wrong, I'm not saying Roddick isn't a great grass courter cos he blatantly is but he could have lost to Schalken at Wimbledon and also to Hewitt at Queen's whereas Grosjean this year and Agassi last year could so easily have ended his campaign at Queens.
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Post by Lisa on Jul 28, 2004 19:54:48 GMT
Good points Rainer... It is a shame tho to think that the top grass courters of recent years have/are going. Pat Rafter, Goran, Greg (shortly no doubt) and Tim in a couple of years. I'd hate to see the ATP get rid of the grass! I like to see how players who grow up with clay & hard courts respond to the different surface!
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Post by asdettin on Jul 28, 2004 21:19:10 GMT
shuttle, all is a deviation from the original point. if you had read my first post you would note that i am not all that high on roddick's abilities. i never once put down henman and the rest of the players you have listed, but seriously, henman has shown time and again he doesn't have the intestinal fortitude to bring the big one home. roddick has won a grand slam, and the ONLY player to defeat him on grass in the last 2 years is federer. yes i suppose he could have lost to the players you mentioned, but he beat them all in straight sets. i do accept others opinions shuttle, but you have not backed up any with facts, only with ifs and buts and i thinks. AT THE MOMENT roddick is the second best player on grass. based upon this statement you made: "Roddick's a good grass court player but I wouldn't label him as being the second best in the world - you have to view a player over a number of years before judging their ability, not just the past two years. " how can you justify federer being the best player on grass CURRENTLY? ?
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Post by RainerShuttle on Jul 28, 2004 22:12:25 GMT
I am not comparing the titles they have won, I am looking at the players they have beaten and the manner in which they have done so. At Wimbledon this year and the year before, Federer beat players of a higher quality than Roddick beat, not to mention defeating Sampras a few years back. My statement about judging a player based on their performances over the years is valid here as the victory over Sampras and his success at Junior Wimbledon shows. I am not particularly a Henman fan either, I am simply replying to your question of who is a better grass court player than Roddick. I understand your original statement criticising Roddick's grass court play but that doesn't detract from your later posts which seem to totally dismiss mine and other people's opinions just because we do not think that Roddick is the second best player in the world on grass. Similarly, if you want to use Queens as a measurement of Roddick's success on grass, why not mention Sjeng Schalken? Winning s-Hertogenbosch twice in a row and reaching the Wimbledon quarters on 3 straight occasions - does that make him the third best player on grass today? If you follow your logic it does
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Post by Lisa on Jul 29, 2004 9:58:12 GMT
?!? if you say Andy is currently the 2nd best player because he came 2nd at Wimbledon (and won well on grass this year), then surely by your theory, Federer has to be the best player currently, on grass as he has won Wimbledon in 2 subsequent years.....
Also, does this mean that Coria is the 2nd best clay courter and Gaudio is the best?? I don't think that's really quite right.
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Post by Lisa on Jul 29, 2004 10:01:33 GMT
True, I didn't think of Sjeng, yes he is beginning to be quite consistant on grass. Another contender.
Tim is also the most consistant on grass, making it to the 2nd week 9 years in a row. The only to have done so since Pete Sampras I think... Just such a shame he can't clinch it!!
btw Rainer, what's your name ?!
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